Episode 13 - Cam and Joseph from Defiant VC
In this episode, I sit down with Cam Rail and Joseph Pizzolato, founders of Defiant VC.
Guests
Show notes
In this episode, I sit down with Cam Rail and Joseph Pizzolato, founders of Defiant VC.
Defiant is a venture capital fund based in London and Lisbon. They focus on B2B SaaS and Fintech and invest in Seed ($1-3m) and Series A ($2-10m) across Europe and occasionally the US. Mostly like technical products, those with complexity, moats and barriers to entry, where we have deep expertise and an ability to add value.
Cam is the product mind of the VC. With past experience as a derivatives trader and founder, he went on working as product lead with Creativemass and Tropicana Sunrise.
Joseph has a huge experience as an investor in Europe, coming from a strong VC and finance background, he invested over time on some big names like Travelperks, Wise and Marqeta.
With them we will explore the high and low of launching a new VC fund, but also the future of the fintech market, the importance of a highly transversal background and what it takes to build a billion dollar startup in Europe.
In this episode
Joseph Pizzolato and Cam Rail explain Defiant, a seed and Series A fund for B2B software and fintech that aims to make experienced investors more effective with data and products, starting with a self-service benchmarking tool for founders. They describe raising a first fund in one of the hardest markets in a decade, why fintech's huge, under-penetrated market is attractive now that generalists have left, and why European LPs' caution holds back venture. They look for founders who know their industry and win on distribution.
Chapters
- 0:00Introduction: Joseph, Cam and Defiant
- 4:14Why venture needs a new model
- 11:20Productising value for founders
- 13:52Raising a first fund in a hard market
- 17:27Stage, sector and geography
- 20:30The fintech opportunity
- 26:40Trends: stablecoins and legacy infrastructure
- 28:33Europe vs the US
- 36:49What Defiant looks for in founders
- 41:34Distribution beats product
- 42:53AI in venture capital
Key facts
Joseph spent about ten years at Vitruvian Partners and Felix Capital, working with nine unicorns and deploying about $400 million, including in Wise, Marqeta, Ledger, TravelPerk, Pigment and Forter.
Cam was a derivatives and algorithmic trader at firms including Virtu and Macquarie, then solo-founded and sold a risk-profiling startup and helped a product company scale from 1 to 10 million in ARR.
Defiant's model is human-led investing powered by data and products, not a quant fund.
Defiant's first product, Blueprint, lets founders benchmark their company against relevant peers and see how fundable they are, without talking to the fund.
Defiant had raised about 30 million towards a 70 million target after about six months in market.
PitchBook forecast fewer than 100 first-time venture funds in 2024, against 400–500 at the peak.
Defiant invests at seed and Series A in B2B software and fintech, typically from about 200,000 to 4–5 million in ARR, with at least 70% in Europe.
Financial services is worth about $11 trillion a year, of which modern fintech is only about 5–6%.
Stablecoin adoption in payments is a matter of time, and the CFO software stack is being rebuilt.
Europe can build homegrown fintech champions, such as Revolut and Monzo.
European LPs' first rule is "don't lose money", while US LPs' is "make money", which shapes how VCs invest.
About 90% of the failures Joseph has seen came down to distribution; the best distribution now beats the best product.
An AI-first venture fund is not the answer, because access to deals matters and private-market data is poor.
Questions and answers
How should venture change?
Keep the human relationships but equip senior investors with data and products so they are faster and deliver scalable value.
Why invest in fintech now?
It is a huge, under-penetrated market and many generalist investors have left after rates rose.
What makes a strong fintech founder?
Someone who has lived the problem inside the industry and has the connections to solve it.